Francesca Burns on free labour, fashion’s sizing problem, and staying vocal

Stylist and editor are fascinating roles because to me, they incarnate many of the contradictions of our industry. A position that is both extremely glamourous and precarious, both well respected while also being undervalued.

I would like to understand these contradictions by asking about three moments in your career. When you first defined yourself as a stylist, when you first saw yourself as a successful stylist, and when you first were a stylist who could pay rent.

There wasn’t one moment where I felt like – I’m now a stylist. I had been assisting for several years when I became afashion editor at i-D. The culture there is very nurturing, they always champion young talent. Ben Reardon was the editor at the time. It was an incredibly exciting place to work. I felt a change when I started representing the magazine and going to press event and fashion shows; I felt like I was part of a team.

It is important to say, being an editor is very different from being a stylist in a freelance capacity. I have worked at magazines my entire career, I’ve been a freelance stylist for only five. I think I’ll always be an editor first. But it was also a very different time. When I started, people weren’t connected socially as much as we are now. There was very limited information about working in fashion beyond being a writer.

I had quite an incredible working experience working for Kylie Minogue’s creative director, William Baker. At the time Kylie was on a world tour and on the cover of every magazine. It was a unique opportunity. It was an environment in the lines between fashion and performing arts, hence I experienced a lot. This was when Kylie got photographed by Mert and Marcus for the cover of POP magazine, with Katie Grand styling. That was really the moment when I realised where I wanted to go. They completely transformed Kylie. It was incredible to watch; the fashion, the lighting; It was exhilarating. Mert and Marcus are extraordinary image-makers and Katie has a talent for taking people from mainstream pop-culture and presenting them in a way you have never seen before. That was my first on set experience with high fashion and it inspired me to pursue a career in magazines.

“I don’t think anyone should work for free. I believe that even if someone is interning and has no experience, they are still doing work that needs to be done and they should be paid for their time.” – Francesca Burns

And how long did it take you to find financial stability?

The financial struggle is very real. It is something that I feel is very important for our industry to change. I don’t think anyone should work for free. I believe that even if someone is interning and has no experience, they are still doing work that needs to be done and they should be paid for their time. This is a systematic problem within fashion. Very few people are privileged enough to come from a background where they have financial support and this immediately creates a barrier to entering the industry.

I was very lucky because I was studying when I started, so I had my student loans and my mom’s support. I also worked two other jobs to support myself. Even then, I had to rely on government support, for a long time during my career. It took me many years to be financially independent, learning how to run a business was completely new to me. My advice to anyone starting out would be: if you can do a short course in business or some way to learn how to manage your finances, go for it. No one ever told me you need to save 20% for your taxes, and it was quite a surprise when that first letter came!

As a stylist, you sometimes have to wait for so long for an invoice to be paid. There is a very unhealthy economic culture.

Is there any insight you can give as to why unpaid work is so normalized, culturally, in fashion?

Fashion is an extremely alluring industry and there are a lot of people who are desperate to become a part of it. It is this desire that has been exploited for a long time. I do feel like we are living through this great awakening in the industry, across so many areas; racial diversity, body diversity, environmental awareness, and cultural habits that have to include fair pay.

As my friend Steven Philip once told me: “If you can afford to go out for lunch and spend £14 on a glass of wine, you can afford to pay your staff.” It really needs to be legislated, otherwise, our industry will stay homogenous.

“As a community, our eyes have been opened to the fact that just because things have been done a certain way for a long time it doesn’t mean that that is the right way of doing things.” – Francesca Burns

You mention “the great awakening”. How do you personally experience this?

Personally, I feel that as we have become more connected as a global community we have become more aware of the many systemic flaws within our society and it feels impossible to stay quiet anymore. The Me Too and Black Lives Matter movements have encouraged massive and vital change within our industry. As a community, our eyes have been opened to the fact that just because things have been done a certain way for a long time it doesn’t mean that that is the right way of doing things. Collectively, we are saying that we will not tolerate injustice anymore, be that discrimination, sexual abuse, or bullying. We are also unavoidably confronted with the reality of the climate emergency and this too is bringing massive changes and incredible innovation in design and fabric technology, transforming the way we work to strive towards more environmentally sustainable practices. I think it is an amazing moment to be in this industry because we are living through this change and the possibilities are endless. There is a lot of work to do, of course, but I feel that awareness is at the root of everything – our eyes are wide open now and we cannot go back to how things were, we have to work together to build a better future on all levels.

For me, it hasn’t been a quick change, it’s a constant journey, but I don’t want to stay quiet anymore. The more people speak out, the better. What’s the worst that can happen?

When you speak up and openly criticize the institution, do you ever feel pushback from the industry? Negative reactions?

Absolutely. People are afraid of change. When it comes to body diversity, I recently posted about the problem of sample sizes being so small, and I received lots of comments of people that were being cruel and fat-shaming, or saying I was discriminating against models. When you are speaking about difficult issues you will always be met with challenges.

The older I get the more aware I am that we have been subliminally brainwashed our entire lives. I was a teenager in the 90s, and I can consider myself lucky that it was the era of the athletic supermodel, which feels more positive than what came afterwards: post-grunge and heroin chic. For decades, fashion advertising has favoured a very thin, very young, very white aesthetic. That was the standard. In only representing one very specific beauty standard the subtext is that if you do not meet this ideal then you are not beautiful. This leaves a huge and devastating impact. If you don’t see yourself reflected in the pages of a magazine, it is so damaging. We need to think about what we say with the images we create. Thankfully, we are now seeing an enormous change and I don’t think we can even begin to underestimate how important this is. As an industry we have to constantly think about what we are saying with the images we create and their wider impact; we need to actively strive to be inclusive.

“As an image-maker, you need to always question yourself asking: what am I saying here? Is this model happy to be here?” – Francesca Burns

But when you create an image, don’t you always create a fantasy for people to strive to?

The minute you create an image of a person you are taking them out of the realm of reality and you elevate them by that choice. But it’s how you do it which makes a big difference. If you work with love and respect for the people you work with that impacts everything.

Humanity has always had gods. We’re now living in the 15-minutes of fame era, everyone can feel like a god with the right filter. Everybody has the possibility of fame, and iconic status just because of the power of the internet. But as an image-maker, you need to always question yourself asking: what am I saying here? Is this model happy to be here?

“You cannot forget that we’re dealing with people, not commodities, and most people are incredibly sensitive. ” – Francesca Burns

Your Instagram bio also mentions you’re a “real human being”. Why is that important to you?

I think the human experience of this job is often lost. It’s this old system where everyone has to stay in their lanes. Personally, I like an image when it portrays someone I’d like to meet. I want to see the woman. What happens on a photoshoot is still real life. For me, the most beautiful pictures are the ones where I feel connected to the subject.

There have been huge changes to the way casting operates. When I was an assistant, it was shocking. The first time I was in Milan for fashion week I met a lot of models who were underaged and unsupervised, with no time to eat or sleep. Just left on their own. This shouldn’t happen, these are just kids. Even recently, I was working on a shoot with a 16-year-old girl who was away from her family and she didn’t speak the language well. She was so unhappy and clearly not enjoying modeling at all, she shouldn’t have been there, she should have been at home with her family. I feel agents need to take more responsibility for the mental health of their girls.

You cannot forget that we’re dealing with people, not commodities, and most people are incredibly sensitive.

When did sustainability become an important issue for you?

I had a lightbulb moment when I was working with Julie De Libran when she was the Creative Director at Sonia Rykiel. Julie had brought in Nina Morenzi from The Sustainable Angle to help her source more sustainable fabrics for the collection. It was incredible listening to Nina talk about the implications of fabric on the environment. I asked them what a stylist could do when we don’t have the information about where and how something is made; we are only using our eye to edit a collection. I showed her a board I was working on for an editorial shoot and one look was a beautiful vinyl red coat. Right there she said, “Fran, that coat will be on this planet longer than your great-grandchildren.” My eyes were opened! As creatives, we act in such an instinctive way. We’re not trained to think too far down the line. For all of the challenges we face as an industry, I believe the more we think about how our choices in the moment will impact further down the line the more we can make positive change. You have to stay conscious.

Again, we’re confronted with fashion as this dream machine. It creates fantasies, so you don’t think about what happens behind the image.

For me, fashion was always this great escape. I was drawn to it because it was a fantasy world. But the more I learn, the more I realise it’s really important to challenge everything when it comes to the impact of what you create. Unfortunately, I’ll never be able to look at a plastic skirt again.

“Recently, I shared on Instagram an experience I had on set with some particularly small sample-sized clothes from Celine and it went viral. When Vogue wrote about my post they did not specifically name Celine in their coverage because of their working relationship. For me, I had to think about my priorities. How will I feel if I don’t speak up about this?” – Francesca Burns

How difficult is it to implement these values working with more mainstream titles?

It is definitely challenging. Fashion is a business and we are always walking the line between art and commerce. Magazines have an obligation to support their advertisers and those brands may not always be aligned with your values. However, you can still spread ‘your message’ in other ways; through your casting choices, through your employment practices, through your environmental practices, and through the way you treat people. Recently, I shared on Instagram an experience I had on set with some particularly small sample-sized clothes from Celine and it went viral. When Vogue wrote about my post they did not specifically name Celine in their coverage because of their working relationship. For me, I had to think about my priorities. How will I feel if I don’t speak up about this? It was an issue that had been bothering me for so long because I love women in all our many physical forms, but it is really challenging if you want to photograph someone who isn’t a model size because there are so few options. For many brands the clothes seemed to be getting smaller and smaller, perpetuating this impossible beauty standard. It was never about attacking someone, but starting a constructive conversation and not being afraid to address the big powerful brands. I feel it is important to keep asking the difficult questions in the public forum. You have to speak up or nothing will change, and we can change – we should change. Inclusivity is a multifaceted issue.

Before you go, I want to speak about Print Magazine. What inspired you to launch it?

I love magazines!  I have worked on magazines for most of my career and there was always a part of me that wanted to explore the possibility of making one…however this would be impossible on my own! I make Print with my friend Christopher Simmonds who is an extraordinary creative director and we shared a mutual love of magazines and a mutual frustration about publishing always following the same format. Of course, there are many brilliant magazines, and the last thing the world needs is another one, so the challenge for us was to make something that didn’t exist and I hope we achieved that. For each issue we only made 1000 copies and the contents come in a very ambiguous brown cardboard box. It has been the most liberating collaborative experience working with so many brilliant contributors and with every issue, we have pushed ourselves further and further to see what we can do in printed form. Our last issue which was published before the pandemic, included a roll of wallpaper by Johnny Dufort, a pack of photographs by Angelo Pennetta, paper plates and a table cloth by Juergen Teller, and playing cards by Larissa Hofmann, along with a poster book by Mert and Marcus. Zines, postcards…it was a great box! Print has always been a labour of love. We self-publish and self-fund all of it so there are no compromises. We are talking about making another one so watch this space….

“I always felt that the only measure of success is your own personal happiness. I just want to do projects I enjoy. ” – Francesca Burns

In fashion, you see this clear division between the passion- and the commercial projects. The passion projects build your portfolio and get you the commercial projects that pay the rent. Is this the case for Print Magazine? Do you see it as a creative portfolio to get other jobs?

Actually, no, not at all with Print. We have no agenda other than to make something we think is really good. For me, there is a certain satisfaction in making something. I don’t get anything out of it other than the pleasure of doing it.

I always felt that the only measure of success is your own personal happiness. I just want to do projects I enjoy. I don’t want to be compromised. I love making pictures, I love photography, I love fashion, I love women, I love the possibility of what you can say with this work.